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	<title>Comments for Mountain Stream Group, Inc.</title>
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	<description>Engineering Communications That Connect</description>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by Jeff Klingberg</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Klingberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-11</guid>
		<description>I totally agree that education and training is a key to the industry&#039;s survival, but from what I have seen there is very little of it going on. Many of the community colleges offering basic fluid power training are ill equipped to teach their students anything. And, there are only a couple dozen professional in university teaching the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree that education and training is a key to the industry’s survival, but from what I have seen there is very little of it going on. Many of the community colleges offering basic fluid power training are ill equipped to teach their students anything. And, there are only a couple dozen professional in university teaching the subject.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by Peter Nachtwey</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Nachtwey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-10</guid>
		<description>There are hydraulic motion controllers that can anything a regular motion controller can do.  Synchronizing, gearing, camming, pressure/force control and position/force limiting.

I do agree that the big hydraulic manufacturers are hurting themselves by producing the same old stuff.  Hydraulic specifications are not consistent or missing.  It may be hard to find the inertia of a hydraulic motor or the proportional/compensator band of a pump.  What is worse is that the manufacturers think they know what is best and don&#039;t make proportional bands for pumps adjustable.

The average hydraulic designer needs a major upgrade.  I can show so many cases where one needs to be able to solve a system of non-linear differential equations to model how a system will work. How many people do you know can do that or even know what I am talking about?

Visit a hydraulic forum.  When ever someone mentions synchronizing actuator the first thing that is mentioned is a flow divider or maybe a gear motor. No one ever mentions hydraulic servo control.  Hydraulic servo control costs too much but time and production wasted screwing around with a poor solution cost even more.  I am amazed that hydraulic people still think they can compete with modern electric servo systems with their flow controls.  It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.  I have no sympathy.

You guys should see a modern saw mill.  There is very sophisticated hydraulic motion control going on there.   We have sold our controller into press applications, robotic applications,  6DOF motion platforms.  The hydraulic motion controller can doe the 6DOF inverse kinematics if there is someone to program it. I can, I know the math.  If you don&#039;t can&#039;t do the math or physics then it makes no difference whether you are using motors or hydraulics. 

We have customers that have replaced VFDs with hydraulics because hydraulics truly was the right way to do the application AND a good hydraulic controller was available. 

Just because you don&#039;t know about it doesn&#039;t mean that good things aren&#039;t happening.  Perhaps there aren&#039;t a enough good things happenings.  I know that it is hard to get our customers to advertise their success stories because they see their success as a competitive advantage.

In the end hydraulics is just another way of getting power from one place to another like gears, belts, drive shafts, chains and sprockets etc.  They are tools.  It is the forever knowledge, the design and control techniques using physics and math that is important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are hydraulic motion controllers that can anything a regular motion controller can do.  Synchronizing, gearing, camming, pressure/force control and position/force limiting.</p>
<p>I do agree that the big hydraulic manufacturers are hurting themselves by producing the same old stuff.  Hydraulic specifications are not consistent or missing.  It may be hard to find the inertia of a hydraulic motor or the proportional/compensator band of a pump.  What is worse is that the manufacturers think they know what is best and don’t make proportional bands for pumps adjustable.</p>
<p>The average hydraulic designer needs a major upgrade.  I can show so many cases where one needs to be able to solve a system of non-linear differential equations to model how a system will work. How many people do you know can do that or even know what I am talking about?</p>
<p>Visit a hydraulic forum.  When ever someone mentions synchronizing actuator the first thing that is mentioned is a flow divider or maybe a gear motor. No one ever mentions hydraulic servo control.  Hydraulic servo control costs too much but time and production wasted screwing around with a poor solution cost even more.  I am amazed that hydraulic people still think they can compete with modern electric servo systems with their flow controls.  It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.  I have no sympathy.</p>
<p>You guys should see a modern saw mill.  There is very sophisticated hydraulic motion control going on there.   We have sold our controller into press applications, robotic applications,  6DOF motion platforms.  The hydraulic motion controller can doe the 6DOF inverse kinematics if there is someone to program it. I can, I know the math.  If you don’t can’t do the math or physics then it makes no difference whether you are using motors or hydraulics. </p>
<p>We have customers that have replaced VFDs with hydraulics because hydraulics truly was the right way to do the application AND a good hydraulic controller was available. </p>
<p>Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean that good things aren’t happening.  Perhaps there aren’t a enough good things happenings.  I know that it is hard to get our customers to advertise their success stories because they see their success as a competitive advantage.</p>
<p>In the end hydraulics is just another way of getting power from one place to another like gears, belts, drive shafts, chains and sprockets etc.  They are tools.  It is the forever knowledge, the design and control techniques using physics and math that is important.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by Bud Trinkel</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Bud Trinkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-8</guid>
		<description>I believe one main reason for Fluid Power&#039;s decline is the lack of TRAINED/DEDICATED Fluid Power Engineers amd Maintenance persons. Engineers who can reliably apply the components and Maintenance Persons that can keep it running with little down time and no Hot Leaky Hydraulics that vShake Rattle and Roll continnually. 

That situation has left an opening for disciplines with TRAINED/DEDICATED Engineers and Maintenance persons to make replacement equipment that is equal to or superior a lot of present day applied Fluid Power. Been talking about this lack of knowledge hole for years with almost no positive feedback from Fluid Power manujfacturers or users. 

Fluid Power training is also on the back burner with 1-2 week seminars and those mainly by Fluid Power manufacturers training departments. 

Bud Trinkel 
HYDRA-PNEU Consulting 
Ndewburgh, IN 
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/eBooks/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe one main reason for Fluid Power’s decline is the lack of TRAINED/DEDICATED Fluid Power Engineers amd Maintenance persons. Engineers who can reliably apply the components and Maintenance Persons that can keep it running with little down time and no Hot Leaky Hydraulics that vShake Rattle and Roll continnually. </p>
<p>That situation has left an opening for disciplines with TRAINED/DEDICATED Engineers and Maintenance persons to make replacement equipment that is equal to or superior a lot of present day applied Fluid Power. Been talking about this lack of knowledge hole for years with almost no positive feedback from Fluid Power manujfacturers or users. </p>
<p>Fluid Power training is also on the back burner with 1–2 week seminars and those mainly by Fluid Power manufacturers training departments. </p>
<p>Bud Trinkel<br />
HYDRA-PNEU Consulting<br />
Ndewburgh, IN<br />
<a href="http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/eBooks/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/eBooks/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Before You Leap Into Social Media &amp; Networking by Drew Gerber</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=716&#038;cpage=1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew Gerber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=716#comment-7</guid>
		<description>These are great steps.  One thing I&#039;ve noticed in our social networking efforts:  what wins the day is the personal touch.

~Drew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are great steps.  One thing I’ve noticed in our social networking efforts:  what wins the day is the personal touch.</p>
<p>~Drew</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by Scot VanVleet</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Scot VanVleet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Well written facts here. We have made the decision to carry both of the industry leading products with Numatics (ASCO) and IAI. While I feel there will always be a place for the ever famous Pneumatic valve /cylinder combination I see the electric market on a continuous growth pattern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written facts here. We have made the decision to carry both of the industry leading products with Numatics (ASCO) and IAI. While I feel there will always be a place for the ever famous Pneumatic valve /cylinder combination I see the electric market on a continuous growth pattern.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by Jeff Klingberg</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Klingberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-5</guid>
		<description>While we appreciate IAI&#039;s ping back, our blog post isn&#039;t an endorsement of any one technology. It was meant to provoke thought and conversation within the fluid power industry as to its future and how to get there because a lot of people are questioning the industry&#039;s future and the decisions management of companies within the industry are making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While we appreciate IAI’s ping back, our blog post isn’t an endorsement of any one technology. It was meant to provoke thought and conversation within the fluid power industry as to its future and how to get there because a lot of people are questioning the industry’s future and the decisions management of companies within the industry are making.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by Jeff Klingberg</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Klingberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Long a haven for pneumatic control, the valve actuator market is also changing actuation technology from pneumatic to electric. The reasons being better control, more data feedback, lack of wiring/plumbing and the cost of compressed air production. 

I agree that automation knowledge (electric, pneumatic and hydraulic) is crucial for designers, mechanics and salespeople. But, significantly more emphasis will be placed on electric motion control in the very near term without major technological advancements in pneumatics and hydraulics which make the products more compact, more energy efficient and more user friendly. Fluid power components are going to have to be as equal as their electric competitors in component feedback and diagnostics. When I say feedback, I mean not just on/off, or extended/retracted. They&#039;re going to have to tell the operating system how much electricity is being consumed; what the fluid flow rate, temperature, and pressure are at the valve; is the valve coil about to burn out; is there are short in the coil; and is there contamination in the valve that is causing operation failure among many other diagnostic information sets.

Without major technological advancements in fluid power &lt;strong&gt;and quickly&lt;/strong&gt;, (5 years or less) they will be a bit player in the motion control actuation industry after being a major contributor for over 2000 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long a haven for pneumatic control, the valve actuator market is also changing actuation technology from pneumatic to electric. The reasons being better control, more data feedback, lack of wiring/plumbing and the cost of compressed air production. </p>
<p>I agree that automation knowledge (electric, pneumatic and hydraulic) is crucial for designers, mechanics and salespeople. But, significantly more emphasis will be placed on electric motion control in the very near term without major technological advancements in pneumatics and hydraulics which make the products more compact, more energy efficient and more user friendly. Fluid power components are going to have to be as equal as their electric competitors in component feedback and diagnostics. When I say feedback, I mean not just on/off, or extended/retracted. They’re going to have to tell the operating system how much electricity is being consumed; what the fluid flow rate, temperature, and pressure are at the valve; is the valve coil about to burn out; is there are short in the coil; and is there contamination in the valve that is causing operation failure among many other diagnostic information sets.</p>
<p>Without major technological advancements in fluid power <strong>and quickly</strong>, (5 years or less) they will be a bit player in the motion control actuation industry after being a major contributor for over 2000 years.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wake Up Fluid Power Industry Or Prepare For Extinction by hydraulic actuator</title>
		<link>http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889&#038;cpage=1#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>hydraulic actuator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mountainstreamgroup.com/?p=889#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Valve actuators are really needed for complex tasks in the high power market.If the load requires accurate positioning, the electric actuators as well as the valve actuators has the advantage among others.That is why,to familiarize yourself in this kind of industrial application , knowing how an automation works is a wisely action and will positively keep us in track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Valve actuators are really needed for complex tasks in the high power market.If the load requires accurate positioning, the electric actuators as well as the valve actuators has the advantage among others.That is why,to familiarize yourself in this kind of industrial application , knowing how an automation works is a wisely action and will positively keep us in track.</p>
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